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Debate: US-China: Measuring decline and rise

Whose century?

by Andrew Shearer - 18 January 2012 11:40AM

Dr Ken Henry and his team are busy preparing the Government's White Paper on 'Australia in the Asian Century', due to be released in the middle of this year.

In Australian academic, business and media circles there is breathless excitement about the rise of China (and the US decline they assume as its inevitable corollary). But one of the points I would make to the White Paper team is that it would be a major error to write out the US (as the White Paper's title seems to imply), and that we may yet prove to be living in the Asia Pacific century, or indeed the Indo-Pacific century.

Following President Obama's November visit and his historic address to the Australian parliament, a number of influential academic, business and political figures expressed concern about moves (supported by both the major parties) to strengthen further the Australia-US alliance.

In essence, their concern was that stationing a relatively small number of US Marines in Australia's north for half the year might feed the concerns of our largest trading partner that we are part of a US-led strategy to 'contain' it.

To the extent that anyone thinks current US policy really resembles Cold War containment, this reflects woeful ignorance of US strategy during the Cold War and now. But their argument also rests on an assumption that America has had its day and that China's burgeoning gross domestic product will translate directly into predominant power which Australia has to start heeding, now.

I have argued elsewhere that, far from becoming a liability, Australia's strategic relationship with the US is becoming more important. That conviction is made stronger by an important new article by Michael Beckley in the journal International Security.

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China v US: An economic rematch

by Mark Thirlwell - 27 January 2012 9:34AM

Andrew Shearer's recent post on US-China comparisons prompted me to take a look at the paper by Michael Beckley he recommended. While I don't have anything useful to contribute on the specific subject of the US military/security edge over China, a couple of things did strike me.

First, I would summarise many of Beckley's points regarding the clear superiority of the US in measures of innovative capacity such as R&D spending and patent citations as reflecting the big difference in GDP per capita between the two countries. Given the close correlation between the level of a country's development and many of these variables, these results are exactly what we should expect when comparing a developed and developing economy. 

Or, to put it another way, countries at the economic frontier are likely to grow more through innovation while countries involved in catch-up growth will rely on a different growth model. 

This difference is one of the factors that lie behind concerns about so-called 'middle-income traps': the policies and institutions you need to deliver the growth that get you from low- to middle-income status may not map all that well onto those that get you from middle-income to high-income status. So while it's quite possible that the gap with the US on these innovation-style indicators will narrow as China develops and its GDP per head rises, it's not a foregone conclusion.

Second, I was surprised by the claim – at least with regard to economic variables – that the US lead over China has grown since 1991. That's certainly not what I would take away from the data. Of course, there are lots of potential variables to consider, and there are probably some data points that would support this story. 

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Defining decline

by Michael Beckley - 3 February 2012 9:33AM

Michael Beckley is an International Security Program Research Fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Belfer Center.

Is the US in relative economic decline to China? In a recent article in International Security, I say 'no'. In a post on this blog, Mark Thirlwell says 'yes'. Who's right? 

The answer is: we both are, but only by our own definitions of decline. I define decline as a narrowing of the wealth gap between the US and China. Thirlwell defines decline in terms of economic growth rates. Thirlwell and I come to opposing conclusions because the US is growing at a slower rate than China while simultaneously becoming wealthier. 

How can this be? Normally, growth rates dovetail with changes in wealth gaps. But these measures often diverge when comparing a rich country like the US to a poor one like China. 

Since 1991, China's per capita income rose 11% annually while America's rose 3.5% annually. But 11% of US$900 (China's per capita income in 1991) is less than 3.5% of US$24,000, the US's per capita income for that year. As a result, the average Chinese citizen is US$17,000 poorer compared with the average American today than he was in 1991. 

The figure below illustrates this phenomenon. The blue line denotes the absolute difference between US per capita income and that of China. The red line shows China's per capita income as a fraction of America's. 

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China-US: Power in perspective

by Hugh White - 6 February 2012 3:29PM

As Michael Beckley acknowledges in his reply to Mark Thirlwell, it is hard to say definitively whether America is declining economically relative to China, because it depends what you measure. On some measures it is, and on others it's not. So the next question is: which measures should we pay attention to? And that depends on why we are interested.

In the present debate, flowing from Michael's excellent essay in International Security, we are interested in what the economic trends mean for America's strategic and political power, particularly in relation to China. And we are interested in that primarily because of the implications of shifts in relative power for America's management of its relationship with China. 

So we have three questions to answer before we can draw strategic policy conclusions from the economic data. First, which economic measures are most relevant to judgments about relative strategic and political power? Second, how far are these measures actually moving? And third, how far do the relevant measures have to move to make a difference to the way America frames its policies towards China?

Let's look at them briefly in turn.

Which measure? 

If I read him right, the core of the Michael's argument is that the wealth of a country's citizens, measured as average per capita income, is more useful than the overall size of its economy, measured as GDP, as an index of the country's strategic power.

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America has asymmetries too

by Malcolm Cook - 7 February 2012 3:30PM

This passage in Hugh's latest post sparked two questions in my mind:

There are three key asymmetries in the US-China relationship which all break China's way. China's objectives are focused in Asia, while America's are globally dispersed.

  1. Isn't it the case that one asymmetry in the US-China relationship that has long broken in favour of the US is America's system of alliances and security partners in Asia, which helps support its primacy? If China is a 'lonely superpower', the US is a very popular one in Asia and growing more popular.
  2. Aren't China's strategic objectives growing more dispersed geographically as its power, energy imports, etc expand? If so, could this asymmetry also be breaking the way of the US?

Photo by Flickr user Beverly & Pack.

To see power, look for actions and symbols

by Robert Ayson - 8 February 2012 11:11AM

Robert Ayson is Director of Centre for Strategic Studies at Victoria University, Wellington. 

The recent Interpreter debate over the relative power of China and the US is important in its ambition but questionable in some of its method. The problem is the assumption that we can decide whether the US really is in relative decline on the basis of an economic comparison with a growing China, and on then finding some way of determining how that material power makes for influence.

Even if we were to agree on the same metric for measuring that economic power, we would still have a variable where each unit of power is equal. But power is about relationships (what I can do to you?; what do you think I can do to you?; what do others think I can do to you and to them?). It is not about comparisons (am I bigger than you?; do you think I am bigger than you?; do others think I am bigger than you?). We are doing too much of the latter sort of analysis.

Because it is about social relationships, power is as much about perception as it is about concrete capacity: I don't perceive you as powerful simply on the basis of your size or other material factors (compare Japan and Israel for a moment). And because it is about perception, power is lumpy rather than smooth (as Thomas Schelling might say). Some units of power are much more equal than others. Changes in power status do not simply appear gradually and cumulatively. Large symbols of change, which shock and otherwise alter our perceptions, are often more important than a collection of small concrete ones.

Let us take as an example Britain's decline in Asia. Unlike today's debate over what China's rise means for America's influence, this example of decline is incontestable.

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Can America count on its Asian allies?

by Hugh White - 9 February 2012 2:04PM

Malcolm Cook responds to my argument that US-China strategic competition is weighted China's way with two counter-examples. First, doesn't the US have a big advantage in its network of allies in Asia? And second, doesn't China now have global interests just as America does, so it too must spread its strategic efforts globally, rather than reap the advantage of being able to concentrate them in Asia, as I had suggested? Both goods points, but alas, I do not think either make much difference.

First, whether its allies are an asset or a liability for the US against China depends on how closely US objectives align with their allies' objectives. I think the alignment is much weaker than it often appears. 

The US wants to perpetuate American primacy in Asia, even at the expense of an adversarial relationship with China. Its Asian allies want to prevent China getting primacy, but that's not the same thing. In fact, they will not support the US sustaining primacy if the cost is US-China hostility. Most still hope they can avoid both Chinese hegemony and US-China hostility. 

So US allies do not share US objectives as they are now defined, and if push comes to shove, they will not help the US achieve them. The allies, then, are not an asset for the US – in fact they are probably a liability, though that's another argument.

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Power: The dangers of misperception

by Hugh White - 10 February 2012 3:28PM

Rob Ayson's characteristically wise and subtle post makes the very important point that what matters about power is not what you've got, but what you choose to do with it; human choices like that are subjective things, and hence hard to plot on graphs, let alone predict. 

As Rob hints, choices about power are especially hard to plot or predict because power is, to use a word he taught me to apply in this context, transactional: your choices about the exercise of power towards me profoundly influence my choices about the exercise of power towards you, and vice-versa. Absolutely right.

So, two modest points in response, the first just by way of elaboration. A key element of Rob's argument is that one of the biggest subjectivities in strategic choices is in perceptions about respective power. What will drive the strategic choices about one another in Beijing and Washington over the next few years is not the reality of their relative power – whatever that might turn out to be — but the perceptions of it in each place.

That recalls Geoffrey Blainey's argument in his excellent The Causes of War written back in the 1980s. Blainey argued that the main causes of wars are differences of perception between countries about their relative power, which they end up going to war to resolve. 

That is why perceptions of power are so important, and differences in perceptions are so dangerous. If the US and China end up going to war in Asia over the next decade or two, it will be in large measure because each believes they are strong enough to dominate Asia against the wishes of the other. My bet is that both are wrong, but that won't stop them fighting to find out.

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Yes, China really is catching up

by Mark Thirlwell - 15 February 2012 8:25AM

I'm sympathetic to the distinction Michael Beckley raises between GDP and GDP per capita in his post on defining decline; it's a point I also focused on in my original post. Each gives us different readings about national capabilities.

But the other question I raised concerned comparisons over time. Specifically, I was surprised by Beckley's contention that the economic gap between the US and China had grown since 1991, and I plotted some GDP and GDP per capita data to suggest that the gap looked like it had shrunk. Beckley disagrees and the source of this difference is that, while I focus on ratios, including the ratio of GDP per capita, Beckley looks at the absolute difference in GDP per capita between the two economies.

It certainly makes sense to look at the absolute difference when comparing the two economies at a given point in time. But absolute differences do not do a good job of capturing changes over time. That's why we should normalise the data when making these kinds of comparisons – for example by constructing ratios or indices.

To see why, take the following (deliberately simplistic and extreme) example. Suppose that, at the start of our comparison period, GDP per capita in the US was $1000 while GDP per capita in China was just $1. Then assume that by the end of our comparison period US GDP per capita had risen to $1.001 million while Chinese GDP per capita had risen to $1 million. So China has grown much faster than the US over this period, but the US remains the wealthier economy: 

By the end of this simplistic example, has China shown signs of catching up with the US or not?

If we look at absolute values, we would have to say 'no'. In fact, the gap between the two countries has increased, rising from $999 at the start to $1000 at the end. And yet the message that China has gone backwards relative to the US is incredibly counter-intuitive.

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