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Debate: Australia-Indonesia relations

Australia in the Asian Century

My Indonesia questions

by Sam Roggeveen - 10 May 2012 11:46AM

On Monday, Alex Thursby from ANZ took to The Interpreter to make the case that Australia needs to turn around its perceptions of Indonesia, and think about developing a relationship as mutually rewarding as the one we have with the US.

It's fair to say that Thursby's position is a variation on a view that's pretty consistent in the foreign policy community in Australia. Some would doubt that Australia could ever have ties with Indonesia that compare to those with the US, but the underlying proposition — that Australia's relationship with Indonesia is severely underdone — is pretty uncontroversial.

I tend to agree with this position too, and in fact it is difficult to find anyone who disagrees. All the more reason, then, to question some of the premises behind this argument and dig down for some details. To start this discussion, which I hope others will take up, I want to pose two questions:

  1. What specifically should we do to improve our relationship with Indonesia?
  2. What's wrong with the status quo? What harm would be caused if we did nothing?

Below the fold, some context for both questions:

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Australia in the Asian Century

Indonesia: Reversing our losses

by Malcolm Cook - 11 May 2012 10:49AM

It is good to see the Asian Century discussion focus on contemporary Indonesia-Australia relations with Sam's thoughtful questions, Alex Thursby's hope for a better done Indonesia-Australia relationship, and Raoul Heinrichs' realist gloom about Australia risking a security dilemma with Indonesia.

Taking up Sam's second question ('What's wrong with the status quo? What harm would be caused if we did nothing?'), I think the present approach by Australians to Indonesia is not one of motivated by loss aversion but, in effect if not in purpose, the opposite. As this recent article in The Age shows, the status quo in Australia is one of steady decline in the study of Indonesia:

There were fewer year 12 students studying Indonesian in 2009 than there were 40 years ago. In universities, numbers fell 37 per cent in the past decade. On current trends, Indonesian will have disappeared within a decade from universities in all states and territories except Victoria and the Northern Territory.

I hope the article's analysis is wrong, as the School I work in at Flinders University administers the only tertiary-level Indonesian language program in South Australia. For loss aversion to become the driver of Australia's approach to Indonesia, steps in Australia will have to be taken to improve Australia's pool of knowledge about Indonesia and its contribution to improved bilateral relations. 

Rather than focusing primarily on educating Indonesians about Australia or Indonesians in Australia, the focus should be broadened to providing greater incentives for Australians to study Indonesia. Altering institutional incentives against high school students studying a foreign language and increased resourcing of the study of Indonesia at all levels by state and federal governments and by private sector actors with Indonesian interests would help the bilateral relationship, reduce the chances of a security dilemma developing, and provide more graduates with relevant skills for Australia's growing commercial and governmental relations with our largest neighbour. And all of this will only require minor leadership gestures here in Australia.

Photo by Flickr user Shreyans Bhansali.

Australia in the Asian Century

Spinning a web with Indonesia

by Stephen Grenville - 11 May 2012 3:41PM

Sam asks for specific suggestions to help our underdone relationship with Indonesia. I've got nothing against a high-profile 'major leadership gesture', but many years ago a wise observer told me that the most useful relationship with Indonesia would comprise a spiderweb of ties that connected us in various places and at various levels. When one bit came unraveled (as it surely will) the others might hold the relationship well enough to re-weave the broken threads over time.

Thus we want ideas for lots of low-profile things as well. Here is one. The Government Partnerships Fund began in 2005, with impetus from the tsunami funds. The idea was to 'twin' Australian and Indonesian government departments, swapping personnel both ways.

I saw two examples close-up: the Reserve Bank with Bank Indonesia and The Australian Treasury with the Indonesian Ministry of Finance. The swaps were both very successful, but quite different. The RBA arranged three-month working secondments ('too long for a holiday: you'll just have to sit down and work alongside us') and technically-oriented visits to Jakarta. Treasury sent a couple of mid-level career bureaucrats to work for an extended period in the MoF, plus around ten bright new graduate recruits.

AusAID has a fixation with governance and effectiveness, so needed to evaluate all this and decide whether taxpayer dollars had been well spent. Not surprisingly, it was pretty hard to show that it had dramatically transformed the bureaucracies in either country. Perhaps the evaluators might have adopted the time-honoured aid evaluation technique of noting good progress in a broad area, then implying that the greater part of this improvement directly reflects your own efforts.

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Australia in the Asian Century

Reader riposte: The Indonesia balance

by Reader riposte - 14 May 2012 10:09AM

Duncan Graham, who runs a blog called Indonesia Now, responds to Sam Roggeveen's post about Australia-Indonesia relations:

The situation is unbalanced. We go there in thousands – few come here. Count the number of Asians in aircraft arriving in Australia from Indonesia.

The relationship is unlikely to mature until large numbers of ordinary Indonesians are able to visit Australia and see for themselves how we live and work, and we meet them in the workplace and socially. This is in addition to the wealthy and educated elite that seems to form the majority of Indonesians in Australia and who, in my experience, tend to have limited contact with the wider society. (Not always their fault — we're not that welcoming and friendly.)

The working holiday visa is a good start – unfortunately with a cap of 100 it will have minimal impact. Allowing Indonesians to work in the horticulture industry under the scheme that permits temporary entry to Pacific Islanders and East Timorese would also assist. Sadly, few skilled and semi-skilled Indonesians will be able to jump the high English language hurdles to work in the mining industry unless given assistance – an opportunity here for Australian educational institutions.

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Australia in the Asian Century

Indonesia: Just a means to an end?

by David McRae - 15 May 2012 11:20AM

Talk of losses averted or gains to be made positions engagement with Indonesia as a means to an end.

The case for the benefits of greater engagement and the risks of complacency has been made often. But engagement should also be an end in itself. My life is enriched every day by being able to speak Bahasa Indonesia and by having spent time in Indonesia, a country of over 200 million people right on our doorstep. I gain access to the diverse perspectives expressed in the Indonesian media, books and films; I can also speak to Indonesians of all stripes, thereby better understanding the issues that interest, worry, unite and divide us.

By not deepening our engagement with Indonesia and other regional neighbours, we miss out on this richness. It's a bonus that closer people-to-people ties can lay the foundation for broader ties in other spheres too.

As for the steps we should take to improve ties, from an Australian perspective I would highlight three areas. The first is the value of in-country study, particularly the ACICIS program*, which produces our core cadre of Indonesia-savvy individuals. Increasing the number of Australians studying in Indonesia requires that we maintain funding for both ACICIS and language programs, but also convincing employers of the value of graduates with in-country experience and language skills.

The second is the need to broaden our engagement with Indonesia beyond Jakarta and Java.

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Australia in the Asian Century

Know Indonesia, know thyself

by Ariel Heryanto - 22 May 2012 11:39AM

Ariel Heryanto is an Associate Professor of Indonesian Studies, ANU College of Asia and the Pacific.

One fundamental issue has concerned me over and above the specific details about how to improve Australia-Indonesia relations being debated on the Interpreter. The number of Australians studying Indonesia has consistently declined. So, reportedly, has the overall number of bilinguals. Many have argued for extra efforts to alter the trend, but most of their rationales are short-sighted, focusing on short-term material gains.

More Australians should make a serious investment in learning about its giant neighbour, and seek the best possible outcome from it, namely self-understanding. It is not about collecting more or new knowledge about other people, or greater control over relations with them.

Most of us tend to think of knowledge or language as merely an instrument for use. The value is measured only by what it can do for us, instead of to us. Most think erroneously that mastering a second language ultimately leads to an ability to say the same

and familiar stuff, but in a different set of words and sounds. But in practice, language is participating in social relations in an extremely complex world of unequals. You cannot say you have mastered a new language if you have not discovered a brand new world, and your new self in it, through the experience of learning it.

The possibility that knowledge might transform the knower is either a foreign idea to many or too scary for some to contemplate, despite the abundant evidence throughout history. This is why conservatives in many parts of Asia feel apprehensive about the spread of language and knowledge from the West in their homeland. They want Western aid, science and technology, but neither any serious understanding of the West nor the Western lifestyles that Asian youths madly devour.

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Australia in the Asian Century

How to improve Australia-Indonesia ties

by Fergus Hanson - 23 May 2012 11:20AM

Sam has provoked a nice discussion on the relationship with Indonesia, which I recently argued in The Australian 'must rank as one of our greatest foreign policy failures'.

I agree with what Malcolm Cook, Stephen Grenville and David McRae have suggested. These ideas all contribute towards Stephen's 'spiderweb of ties'. While this is critical, I think two there are two other crucial requirements: a jolt to accelerate a shift towards closer ties and a long-term framework to help keep progress on track.

A lot of evidence shows how bad relations are: whether it is trade, investment, government-to-government relations, or public attitudes (although interestingly, Indonesians are now more positive towards Australia than we are towards Indonesia). This is not to criticise the excellent work of Australia's impressive diplomats in Jakarta. But there is only so much they can do. Making serious gains in this situation requires political leadership.

So, to answer Sam's first question: 'What specifically should we do to improve our relationship with Indonesia?' In March 2010 I made four suggestions: (1) negotiate a multi-decade vision for the economic relationship; (2) use the projected increase in Australia's aid program to fund a new Colombo Plan for Indonesia; (3) rethink public diplomacy and (4) develop an outward-looking and positive agenda of cooperation with Indonesia. read more

Australia in the Asian Century

Asian Century: A great national project?

by Sam Roggeveen - 25 May 2012 10:45AM

I've found the responses to my Indonesia questions enlightening but I'm not completely satisfied. I think I need to sharpen my argument a little.

I'll start by asking a slightly different question: if all the steps recommended by Stephen Grenville, Fergus Hanson, Duncan Graham and Malcolm Cook are so obviously necessary (a 'no brainer', as Fergus puts it), what's taking us so long? Why can't we get this done?

In my earlier post I suggested one reason why Australia's relations with Indonesia are not as close as they should be: the human bias towards loss aversion. We fight harder to keep what we have than to get something new. And the narrative from those pushing a closer relationship with Indonesia is that we are missing an opportunity.

I'm pretty certain that's right, but it's harder to motivate people with that kind of argument than if you scare them with the threat of actual losses. And none of what I have read so far in this debate convinces me that the downside of maintaining the status quo is all that serious. We've had a cordial but not terribly close relationship with democratic Indonesia, and from a superficial perspective, it's served us tolerably well. Why not just leave it be and focus on more urgent problems?

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Australia in the Asian Century

Reader riposte: A great national project?

by Reader Riposte - 28 May 2012 12:14PM

Richard Green writes:

The idea of treating The Asian Century as a 'great national project' akin to multiculturalism raises an interesting point about leadership. I think of Australian multiculturalism as one of the great successes of Australian history, yet the contribution of our leaders was largely in the form of getting out of the way by removing arbitrary immigration laws, for example.

Multiculturalism was driven by countless small interactions between Australians of many backgrounds. It is worth noting that the last bastions of White Australia are in parliament, boardrooms, the upper reaches of the press gallery, think tanks, media and the press corps. These are islands of monoculture in a diverse sea.

By the same token, the Asian Century may well be already emerging through the actions of Australians (and Asian colleagues) far from power. When our leaders talk about how 'we' must engage more with Asia, young people in particular are probably entitled to ask, 'What do you mean "we" palefaces?'

Australia in the Asian Century

Indonesia: Australia must change

by Hugh White - 28 May 2012 3:28PM

Four observations on the excellent debate on our relations with Indonesia and especially on Sam's most recent post, which takes us into some deep water.

A favourable environment

Sam is on to something with his analogy with multiculturalism. It goes to the heart of our approach to the region around us; an approach that works well for Australia in ways that directly support the security and prosperity of everyone who lives here. We take this for granted, not noticing it because it works so well. As Joseph Nye said in a similar context, our favourable international environment is like oxygen in the air, essential but unrecognised until it's not there. 

But Australia's favourable international environment is far from hard-wired into our nature as a country. Indeed, it is the result of very specific circumstances: we are secure and prosperous because throughout our history our close allies have been the richest and most powerful countries in Asia, shaping the Asian order in ways that have suited us very well and keeping Asia safe for us. Our relations with our neighbours have worked for us because we have always been richer and stronger than they are.  

The biggest crises of our history, and our biggest wars, have been the moments when these fortunate circumstances were most challenged: the two world wars and the Cold War in Asia.

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Australia in the Asian Century

Relax, Australia is already becoming Asian

by Daniel Woker - 29 May 2012 9:26AM

Dr Daniel Woker is the former Swiss Ambassador to Australia, Singapore and Kuwait and now a Senior Lecturer at the University of St Gallen. 

To Sam Roggeveen's crie de coeur that Australia's entry into the Asian Century must become a national project, akin to reconciliation or multiculturalism, yet it cannot even get its relations with Indonesia into a higher and more substantial gear, I would laconically answer, 'Relax!'  If that sounds patronising, I apologise, but it is meant seriously because Australia is becoming more Asian, more attuned to and even more like its geographical neighbourhood.  

I am not the only diplomatic envoy leaving this fascinating country who has titled their parting shot for the lords and masters back home with a variation of the thesis, 'Australia, on its way from Oceania to the Asia Pacific'. After duty tours of mostly four years, which have been full of discoveries about Australia and Australians, I have found much to bolster my argument that Australia is becoming more Asian.

Take the economy: Many an Australian branch of a multinational company I visited is considered part of the  Asian region by the mother company far away in Europe or the US. That goes for distribution, marketing, sales and very much includes research and development. Today's Australia is by no means a 'white' country and market, as any casual observer sitting in a street-side coffee shop in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane or Perth will easily recognise (the only 'European' around might be the French student serving the coffee under a working holiday permit).

Take academia: All the Australian places of tertiary education I saw have abundant programs of student exchange and research contacts with Asia, not infrequently to a point where a European university will want to get into a triangular relationship with an Australian and an Asian university to profit from the former's years of experience with the everyday difficulties of international academic exchange. read more

Australia in the Asian Century

Indonesia: Decades from now...

by Sam Roggeveen - 29 May 2012 3:05PM

Our resident Indonesia expert Dave McRae interviewed Professor Hugh White recently about the long-term future of Indonesia, a future in which it will be stronger than Australia.

The theme here is similar to those in Hugh's most recent post in our debate thread on Indonesia: what will it mean for Australia to live next door to what will be a great power?

Australia in the Asian Century

Reader riposte: Faith in Indonesia

by Reader Riposte - 30 May 2012 2:06PM

Duncan Graham writes:

Sam, I agree with your reasons regarding the lack of political will and add a couple more.

The standard journalist's opening line for stories about Indonesia has been 'the world’s most populous Muslim nation' for so long it must be embedded in the mind of every Australian, even if they know nothing else about the country.

The Bali and Jakarta bombs have added the words 'Muslim terrorists' and there’s the equation for distrust.

Engagement that’s based solely on trade, aid, defence and security is doomed to fail if it doesn't embrace the many other factors that build identity: culture, music, sport, history, cuisine, entertainment, humour, governance, education, law, faith and more.

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